DataChat Live!

Episode #1 - Everything Breaks

June 10, 2021 ObservePoint Season 1 Episode 1
DataChat Live!
Episode #1 - Everything Breaks
Show Notes Transcript

June 10 2021: Join the conversation with Jeremy Moran of Quadratic about building robust identities with CDPs, the new Adobe SDK, and more!

We have a lot of clients across a lot of different industries. The problems that we always run into come to light downstream. I think about data flow from upstream to downstream, and the data we're collecting impacts the decisions that are being made. And more often than not the calls we get are, "We're looking at our internal reporting systems, our sales, and our leads. It's just not even remotely close to what we're capturing in web analytics." We have to have a conversation sometimes to say, "Hey, those two are never going to be 1:1, that's just not how the technology works." But sometimes it really is a significant gap that we need to look into. But, it always comes to light when it's a little too late. And that's why when we talk about pain points, we try to focus upstream.

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Chris Baird: (00:04)
Okay. It looks, we are live, our first DataChat LIVE! Welcome, everybody, where data lovers talk governance, validation decision-making and more. We reserve the right to add anything on an append that as we see fit, my name is Chris Baird. I'm the CMO here at ObservePoint, but this really isn't about ObservePoint today until the very end. We're going to be talking about a lot of different topics, and this is our first, we're going to call it a blog. It's a podcast, it's a blog, it's a discussion. The audience will change a little bit every week, but we're happy to be here. So let's go ahead and introduce everyone real quick, and then I'll give a little setup on what we're going to be discussing today. So Cameron, why don't you introduce yourself and then Clint.

Cameron Cowan: (00:50)
Hi everybody. This is Cameron Cowan. I help run Product Strategy here at ObservePoint, but I've been in this space for a long time. Roots go back to early days of Omniture, where I spent a number of years in a handful of capacities and client services, did some product management, came through the Adobe acquisition. All in all, I spent 13 years with the organization, working on really cool MarTech and advertising technology. Happy to be here and part of the discussion.

Chris Baird: (01:19)
Great. Thanks Cam, Clint.

Clint Eagar: (01:22)
I'm part of a product team here. One of our Product Managers, I've been at ObservePoint for just over 10 years currently, the longest tenured employee here. So I first started out managing all the customer accounts, I've been one the QA managers when it was needed, and now my proper home is Product Management. Before that I was at another startup company called Orange Soda that did digital marketing for small businesses. But before that I was at Omniture as well for a while. So, that's me in a nutshell.

Chris Baird: (01:53)
Yeah. And same here. I feel like it's a broken record, but, we were all employed by the same person. Josh James and John Pestana for many years. But I also was at Omniture and at Adobe for about seven years. And then I've been at ObservePoint for just about seven years coming up in the fall. So yeah, we're excited to start this and kick this off over the next few months and weeks. We don't know exactly how often we're going to be doing this, it'll kind of depend/vary on our topics and our schedules, but we're excited to bring in experts from around the industry. And really, as I mentioned before, really focusing on this idea of talking about governance, about validation, about any changes or things that we should be aware of in the analytics and tracking space. And then just ultimately how we make decisions off of that data. Did I miss anything Cameron, or Clint?

Speaker 4: (02:45)
Nailed it. Okay.

Chris Baird: (02:48)
So today, we actually do have a guest joining us here in a few minutes. Jeremy Moran from Quadratic. He's going to be talking about some of the challenges that he's facing with his clients as it pertains to validation and analytics. So we're excited there. I was going to say, we do have a quick question. As we're getting back, we've really missed meeting with all of our customers in person. I think we're all anxious to get back to live events. I know virtual has always been a big part of our business, having digital content, but we really miss being in person. So a quick question. So we actually are going to be having a lot of polls throughout this blog series, but we do want to kick off by asking the audience to drop in the chat: What is the next live event they're planning on attending in person? So we know that we have a few coming out in the fall. Adobe summit is going to be back next year, obviously. , but there are others, that we've attended in the past. If you have one that you're attending or are aware of in a regional event in the city, internationally drop it in the chat. And we'd love to know where you're planning on going.

Cameron Cowan: (04:02)
Chris, what about you? What's the one you're most excited to get back to?

Chris Baird: (04:06)
I selfishly will answer our own event, VALIDATE in Park City, just because the venue, but we're doing that virtually this year, that will be back next year. But I would say Adobe summit, we meet with roughly 60% of our customers. And we love hearing their problems at Adobe summit and hearing where their challenges are. So for me, I'm a Vegas person. I love going to Las Vegas. I love the nightlife. So I'm excited to get back to Adobe summit next year. What about Cam, Clint?

Cameron Cowan: (04:35)
Partner events, Adobe, Tealium, LiveRep. I remember I was at an event a week before COVID kind of broke out in San Francisco and it was just great being in that environment. So I'm missing that for sure. I'd say for me, the one specific one is Adobe Symposium in Australia, as you know, I spent a couple of years living down in Sydney and so getting back and seeing that market and the cool things they're doing is definitely top of mine for me.

Chris Baird: (05:01)
Yeah. That is a great event, Clint.

Clint Eagar: (05:04)
For me it's I love the virtual ones, I'm a massive introvert so I would rather stay home and join it from the computer. But like the Adobe Summit's always a great one. One I enjoyed a lot with SaaS Con for SaaS Labs down in Austin. That was a fun one as well. Austin's a fun city to visit as well.

Chris Baird: (05:21)
Cool and welcome Jeremy. We're going to still cover some of our topics here before we jumped to you, but Jeremy, any live events you're planning on attending this year?

Jeremy Moran: (05:28)
You know, I would say, I mean, not to beat a dead horse here, but summit is definitely up there. There's a couple of other great conferences, other partners we have. Tealium is one that I'm looking forward to. I don't know, I'm very much in the boat of wanting to get back out there, get out of my house a little bit, get out of Dallas and the heat that we're about to be faced with here.

Chris Baird: (05:57)
Last night I went to the USA national team was here in salt lake and we attended, and it was a first time that we had been in a sporting event where it felt like life was getting back to normal and it was awesome. USA won, four zero over Costa Rica, great game, but it was a lot of fun to be there. And it did remind me of how much fun it is to be around other like-minded people that are trying to solve the same problems. So excited. Michelle says Women in Analytics in Columbus, July 21st through the 23rd. Very exciting. I can imagine our friend Elizabeth Smalls will be attending, because she lives out there and into that scene. So very great.

So just a quick teaser for some of our future episodes that we're going to be doing, on the docket we have some topics. One of the next themes of our next DataChats will be around privacy. So specifically around some of the current regulations that are coming out, it seems like there's new regulations coming out on a regular basis. So we're going to talk about some of those. We're going to be talking about the death of cookies, that theme right there. Then some other items around privacy, anything to add to that, Cam?

Cameron Cowan: (07:17)
No, I think it's the implications of the regulations, as you said, but it's also the responses that technologies are having to those regulations. It's going to be an interesting discussion.

Chris Baird: (07:27)
And then one of our future episodes we'll also cover server-side debate. So this idea of going server side, so we've heard that topic, and we wanted to discuss it. We know we talked about it in a previous event and it was a very hot topic. So a lot of opinionated folks, both ways. So we're excited to discuss that. If you do have topics, please drop them in the chat, we would love to be aware of some of the things that are on your mind. So, ping us directly, or just drop them in the chat. We will include those in future episodes. Also, just before we jump in and talk to Jeremy, we do have a privacy panel with DMPG on June 29th. We'll be sending out information on that. We're basically teaming up with them to understand how the top 100 sites in the US, UK, and Australia are responding to third-party cookie restrictions. So that'll be a great panel on June 29th.

Chris Baird: (08:25)
Cool. All right, so let's jump in, Jeremy again, thanks for joining us. We had a chance to catch up yesterday and kind of talk about what we wanted to chat about today, really great to meet you. You've been in the space a long time. Do you wanna give us a little background on you and your experience and what you do currently?

Jeremy Moran: (08:44)
I'm happy to be here. Very excited to talk about this stuff today. I am our Director of Digital Analytics at Quadratic. We are a data and analytics consulting firm here in Dallas. Been with the company for about eight years now, different roles. Actually started out on the account side, so I had exposure outside of the technical landscape, I would say quite a bit. I dealt with a lot of, angry client calls around this exact topic, so I felt the pain very directly, even though I wasn't hands-on at the time. So this is not an unfamiliar concept to me. And since then been leading our digital analytics team, which every day I feel like we have a new challenge that we're facing. Or a new opportunity, a new technology that's really evolving. But the thing that I feel like stays the most consistent throughout is this topic, because all of the shifts in the technology landscape will happen, but at the end of the day, the foundation that we set in the data collection space is just so critical and can't be overstated.

Chris Baird: (09:58)
Actually it really reminds me of like the landscape that we're in is always changing. I know that even, you know, some of the problems we were solving two years ago, we've already moved on from those, and there's totally different challenges today. So it's a landscape that's really changing quickly. So you mentioned some of the challenges working with your customers, and you're getting some angry calls here and there. What are some of those challenges that specifically they're bringing up today?

Jeremy Moran: (10:27)
Well, we have a lot of clients across a lot of different industries, so ranging from nonprofit, down to banking, e-commerce. The problems that we always run into, I always feel like they come to light downstream. So I think about data flow from like an upstream to downstream, that data we're collecting and how that impacts the decisions that are being made. And more often than not the calls we get are, "Hey, we're looking at our internal reporting systems, our sales, you know, we're looking at our leads. It's just not even remotely close to what we're capturing in web analytics." We have to have a little bit of a conversation sometimes it's like, "Hey, those two are never going to be 1:1, that's just not how the technology works. But sometimes it really is a significant gap that we need to look into. So, it always comes to light when it's a little too late. And that's why when we talk about pain points, we try to focus upstream.

I feel like one of the best examples I have, again, relating this back to Dallas, we've been getting rained on constantly in the last month or so. We've been calling ourselves Seattle, Texas recently. But I bought my house that I'm in right now, two years ago. And in the pandemic obviously spent a whole bunch of time in here with my wife. And we started to see all these little cracks in our drywall. It's a house built over 60 years ago. So we'd go in, we'd patch it up, we paint over it and then our masonry on the outside started getting these little cracks and we're like, "What is going on?" So we'd hire these people. We'd bring them in, we'd pay them more money than we should. So we're pier and beam, I don't know if anybody knows about foundations, but we're not on a slab, we're pier and beam. So things are always shifting. We eventually called in a foundations expert and he said, you're trying to patch up these things, they're just going to keep coming back up. What really is the problem is your gutters your gutters aren't draining away. There's this little gap. There was this point with our gutters where they converge and they were dripping water right down at the base of our foundation, and it was causing the house to move a ton. So when we had dry periods and wet periods that would move the house.

I mean, what a perfect analogy for our world, right? We put all this money into trying to fix problems that occur that are the visual components that we see day to day. The clients that we have have the same exact problems. And it takes a minute to say, all right, where's the foundation that we need to build upon. And that's where I think the data collection comes into all of this. Of course there's other pain points. I feel like documentation, lack of taxonomy, all of that are little sub bullets underneath that. Then of course what you do on an ongoing basis to set those mousetraps to really, you know, hit on the issues that pop up when development and work happens and things break, you have to be able to identify and address those quickly.

Chris Baird: (13:48)
Absolutely. I actually was going to ask, we did a poll just now on how are you and your team involved on your company's privacy compliance efforts? 66% said yes. 33% said no. Jeremy, are you seeing that with the clients you're working with? Are those conversations coming up around privacy and compliance specifically to some of the digital, and the legislation that's been passed?

Jeremy Moran: (14:13)
Yeah, I feel like not as frequently as they should be. It's always something we try to to put out there, there's a certain level of control, of opportunity we have in that space. A lot of the times we really have to guide our clients along because there's so many legal implications, especially for some of our healthcare clients. So we just try to supply as much information as possible, but oftentimes we're just enabling those teams to really get a good understanding of what they need to be focused on.

Cameron Cowan: (14:51)
Jeremy, I was just going to ask, the clients you're working with, are they mostly here in the US, or do you work with global clients as well?

Jeremy Moran: (14:58)
Yeah, we do. Most of our clients are based here in the US, not all in Dallas by any means. And we have a couple of clients where we work with that are US practice, they're US business, but they're multinational.

Cameron Cowan: (15:10)
Okay. The reason I ask is because, not to get too deep down the privacy route, which we'll talk about in a future chat, but what's the guidance you typically give to those customers as far as how strict should their guidance be? Obviously, things like GDPR and external legislation, maybe not directly affecting domestic customers here in the US but should they still be holding themselves to the higher standard? What's your perspective on that?

Jeremy Moran: (15:33)
I think so. I mean, you know, like the privacy conversation, all of this came about because consumers had a specific demand and governments, whether they were knowledgeable on the topic or not, had reactions, right? And they put the legislation in place, but it started with consumer demands. What I find interesting about privacy when I'm explaining this to my parents, who are obviously quite a bit older and think that I'm out here stealing everybody's data on a day-to-day basis, I help them understand that in some ways the pendulum is kind of flip-flopped a little bit, where everything was cookie driven, anonymous, and it existed in the state. And it's a very imperfect state, as we all know, but now we actually have to associate identity with anonymous data and create that sunonymous data. And in some ways it almost feels like from a backend standpoint, I'm thinking, it feels like we're actually exposing more about an individual than should be exposed to meet the requirements of these legislations to respect people's ability to opt out.

Jeremy Moran: (16:37)
So, there's a million ways to go with that topic, but I think the main thing that we're trying to advise our clients on is be flexible. And that includes being flexible in your budgets and knowing when you need to hold aside some revenue or some cost for platforms that are going to enable you to really manage this at scale, because it's not easy for sure. No matter how they roll this out, it's going to be piecemeal and you're gonna have to react in the moment.

Chris Baird: (17:08)
Just in hearing you say that it really inspires me to make sure that we're continuing to create an environment where we can keep a larger audience up to date, because I don't think there's been a really great dedicated resource yet, and if there is, please let us know. If there is a resource, a blog, a podcast, that is actually addressing some of these concerns and keeping analysts and analytics professionals in the loop on some of these concerns. That's what we want to be. I mean, that's why I think we created this. Let's make sure that we're bringing professionals in and making sure everyone's aware of best practices here. Cameron, do you want to talk a little bit about with Jeremy, and maybe Jeremy, talk to us a little bit about building out identities and more robust signals, and using CDPs?

Jeremy Moran: (18:00)
Yeah, sure. It's definitely a space like admittedly, we're dipping our toes in the water, but at the same time diving in. If that makes sense, right? Like I said, everything's moving so quickly. I think where we've been working with several clients over the years and in terms of helping them build their out identity foundation, but that's still been very closely tied to these third-party identity networks that are cookie reliant. And that world is, is as we know, hate to say cookie crumbling, like as the most cliche phrase ever, but in that world is rapidly changing. And then you can see it in the data. So when we think of identity, we're really trying to find a way to build robust signals and and you know, ideas that are able to carry from one system to another. So that we can look at an individual as a true individual. And that's not an easy thing to accomplish.

Like we have a ton of clients that aren't e-commerce, that aren't coming to your site every month. We have clients that, that people come to the site once a year. So how do you build an identity layer when those ID's are constantly changing, you have to find sort of that one consistent piece. And I think what's nice about a CDP is we've been for many years prior to this, stitching together data to pull the known and unknown data into one single view. So we can look at things like lifetime value or retention, or some of these things that you just don't get from cookie-based reporting alone. CDP just takes the effort out of having to build that on your own. And I think that's why we're advising a lot of clients to lean into that opportunity. It's not a perfect system, it's going to be hard to build these robust identities. But I think we view that technology is really one of the front runners, and being able to move into this next version of identity and what all that will look like.

Cameron Cowan: (20:08)
I think about the fact that most CDPs are essentially, if you boil down the definition it's, we can take data from anywhere about your customers, consolidate it, unify it, and then send it to anywhere for activation. And that kind of brings me back to the point you made at the beginning around just your house falling apart. And then the law of entropy, things fall apart. And CDPs, by their nature, are dependent on those upstream systems to get the data right. And so when we're talking about data governance and making sure that not only, for example, your analytics implementation or your CRM configuration is good from day one, but what happens a year or two or three down the road when things start to fall apart? How do you guide your customers far as getting that right? Both from a first party data analytics perspective, as well as that identity portion going into the CDP.

Jeremy Moran: (20:55)
This is gonna probably sound really lame, but documentation. Here's one of the things that is constant. And again, just thinking about constance as our world evolves. Naming conventions are something that I think when there's turnover or change within an organization, there's a tendency to want to come and say, okay, we're going to change this page name, or we're going to change even the name of this marketing channel, or whatever it might be. Sure, there's ways of going back and changing historical data, but if you're trying to change the most foundational level of the taxonomy and schema on an ongoing basis, when you get into those platforms it can be really challenging to extract any long-term value. It's a really important thing for us is documenting that taxonomy and making sure that anybody has a reference, any of our clients have a reference guide as they evolve their organization and stick with something consistent.

Cameron Cowan: (21:56)
That's one of the things I remember from the very earliest days when I joined Omniture back in 2005, when we'd have customers roll out a great implementation and it would be good for a month or two or three, and all of a sudden cracks would start to sink in. And then people would start to question the data, and then all of a sudden, two years had passed and nobody was even looking at the reports because they didn't trust them. And the thing I love about being in this space, the thing I love about this podcast and these discussions around data governance is, it's not all about technology, and it's not all about services. You need both sides of that equation in order to keep things up and good, and fight that second law of thermodynamics and really push out the entropy.

Clint Eagar: (22:34)
One of the things that I've seen a lot over the years here at ObservePoint is, a new customer will come on board and one of their primary goals is to understand what are the technologies that are deployed on the site? What are all the variables and what does all the data look like? Because we don't know right now. And so, we'll start over with our documentation. So how often that happens, cause it does. The law of entropy is real.

Chris Baird: (22:59)
I feel like we could have an entire podcast just on documentation and best practices around what companies and enterprises are doing around documentation, and what solutions exist that can help with that. I know there are a couple, so that's another agenda topic that we can add some time, let's talk about Adobe SDK, Cameron, and Jeremy, do you want to talk about that?

Cameron Cowan: (23:20)
It's obviously something that, I know that was aspirational back when I was at Adobe, to get off of these individual JavaScript files and tags and consolidate them, one tag to rule them all, and it looks like they're there. Jeremy, I'd love to hear if that's something you're discussing with your customers now, and what you see that rollout looking like over the next several quarters.

Jeremy Moran: (23:38)
I wish I had my team to come in and provide some technical perspective. This is what happens when you're an account guy who comes into this world. But I can talk about it at a high level. I mean, we're having conversations about it with our clients, whether it's mobile SDK or web SDK within that Adobe framework. I think it goes back to the same idea of centralizing everything in one place and bringing consistency. And frankly, it comes back to the idea of naming conventions again. If you're sending different data points to different data partners, if it's a media campaign, you're sending one version of data to, or a media partners sending one version of data to, and then your web analytics has a different thing that it's latching on to, it all gets messy and it gets convoluted. And I think that's what that "one tag to rule them all" is really trying to solve for, is centralizing everything so that it comes in it's centralized. And then it goes out to all the same endpoints with that exact same detail and information.

Cameron Cowan: (24:39)
I think just from a broader data governance perspective, the Adobe experience cloud SDK, a web SDK is just one example that's kind of topical right now, but we've seen a lot of times in which we were talking about governance and moving from one set of tags or standards to another, you need to be able to have the systems in place and those standards and those commonalities. I mean, I think about back in April when DTM was officially and finally sun-setted and we're moving everybody over to Adobe launch, that's another example of being able to do that type of migration. But whether you're doing that within the Adobe ecosystem, or you're moving from one analytics platform to another one testing platform to another, there's always going to be flux and change in the digital environment and being able to set aside those governance standards to help guide people across those migrations is really important. Once, again, both from a technology perspective, but also from a services perspective.

Chris Baird: (25:31)
Yeah. I would love to get an Adobe customer, on here, a mutual customer, one of our customers, somebody, and talk about how they're leveraging Adobe SDK, whether it's mobile or whatever, just to actually walk us through the difference it's making and some of the benefits they're seeing from that. So we should add that. Tagging and the second law of thermodynamics, Cameron.

Cameron Cowan: (25:56)
I think we hit on that and that's probably a good place to wrap up with Jeremy. Once again, things fall apart. And I don't think that's specific to analytics, which is where my background is. I don't think that's specific to even digital deployments. That's all across all business processes. I think, as we look at digital governance, kind of the point of this discussion. Jeremy, any last thoughts on how, not only you can set yourself up during your initial implementation of any technology to fight that law of thermodynamics, but also to then adjust for the entropy over time?

Jeremy Moran: (26:28)
I think of it, I'll draw another analogy, I think of it in terms of setting mousetraps, right? You will put the mousetraps in the areas where you think, or already have evidence that there have been there's been a mouse in your house eating through your cereal box or whatever. You'll put the mousetrap there and then a couple of months later, and maybe you'll catch one, and a couple months later, you'll go to another area and realize, oh my God, they're in over here as well. I think that entropy is inevitable. I think that we have to just set mousetraps. Think proactively about where we put them. Put them in our food cabinets before we have the issue. So we're not going to capture every single potential permutation of an implementation error. It's about setting the right mousetraps through the technology that we use to automate that type of process, to the culture we build around this idea of data integrity. We have conversations with a lot of clients who are dealing with these pain points head on, and we often start with just education, here's why this stuff is important. This is not a sexy topic to talk about for many people, especially if you're in senior leadership and you're getting a budget and a big portion of that budget is ongoing maintenance of your web analytics. But galvanizing organizations and building a culture around that both internally amongst our team and also amongst our clients is so critical.

Chris Baird: (28:08)
Thank you, Jeremy. Appreciate it, and we appreciate you jumping on and sharing your time and your knowledge. Always been a friend of ours, and we look forward to seeing you at summit or you're on our next event. And we'll let you bounce. Thank you.

Jeremy Moran: (28:26)
Thank you guys. Alright, see you soon.

Chris Baird: (28:29)
Also next, I actually was, these are in our notes here, our show notes, the LGPD in Brazil enforcement starts August 1st. And we're going to be talking about that, on our next show. So just FYI, we didn't get a chance to talk with Jeremy about it, but we will address that next time. So to wrap up our show for the last 10 minutes or so, five to 10 minutes, we're going to talk about some of the changes and updates that we're making. I'll pass it over to, Cameron and Clint.

Clint Eagar: (29:10)
All right. Thanks Chris

Chris Baird: (29:14)
One more thing, Clint, just so everyone's aware, we were doing a weekly show, session I guess, for all of our customers, and we've moved that to more, arbitrary time period. We were thinking monthly, but we're thinking every couple of weeks maybe. And the idea is just to share what enhancements and changes we're making. So this portion is really more for those that want to learn about ObservePoint, and our existing customers. Showing them what's coming out, what's being released, what we're working on. So obviously everyone's welcome to stay on, but we put it at the end of the show. So we could talk about more industry topics and then focus more on customers at the end of the show. So with that, I'll pass it back over. Sorry about that.

Clint Eagar: (29:55)
No worries. All right, and Cameron, just jump in at any time you want here. One of the big efforts that we've been undertaking here over the last six months or so, is significantly revamping our data structure models how we're storing and how we're processing data so that our reporting can be more insight driven. So that when a customer does have questions about how is this data looking? It's supposed to look like this, but it actually looks like this, kinda comparing reality to what the law is or what the standard is. We're working at getting a lot better at just providing that right out the gates. Some of the things that we're working on a lot of them have been released already, some of them are coming very, very, very soon.

You will know that I'm on our staging environment right now. Most of these things will be ready in our next dot environment here in the next few days, possibly even today for some of them. But just an updated audit summary, just gives a quick overview of all of the technologies that were discovered in the scan. Where things are, where things aren't, and some performance metrics. If you've identified some primary tags that are important to your implementation, we give a high-level summary of each of those here, with really easy ways to get right this information. So here I can see that I'm supposed to have Adobe analytics, and so I can just quickly click to go right to the report that will show me well, where isn't Adobe Analytics? It's supposed to be on every page. And in this small twenty-five page scan, I can see this one page, our careers page, doesn't have our Adobe Analytics tag. And then I can click into that to see some more details to see why, well oh, it looks like it's maybe not supposed to have Adobe analytics. So I can do all the investigation, just right here really, really quickly.

We've significantly revamped the rules reporting as well. One of the things that we get asked a lot about is, I've set up these really important rules for what data is supposed to look like, but then in the reporting, we lose some of the context, or I have to go to a different place in the app to find out what does this rule supposed to be doing? So I've applied some rules to this audit, they're going to fail, just for the sake of illustration. And we can see here, if I expand this one, all of the conditions, what they're supposed to be, what the values are supposed to be, the variables that are supposed to be set, and then just very quickly where it failed.

Cameron Cowan: (32:23)
Clint, I'm just calling out, related to our discussion with Jeremy, I like this part of the new tool specifically, because it goes to that factor of getting your naming conventions and getting your governance right. The rules are, I think sometimes overlooked, but one of the most powerful parts of the platform that it allows you to set those standards. And then when you come in and hopefully your rules aren't breaking every day or every week, but it really highlights where the problems are. One question for you is, as we're developing and launching this new rule summary report specifically, what's the "so what?" I mean there's a lot of data here. When I load this report, what should I think of and look for as a user?

Clint Eagar: (32:59)
Great question. The primary thing is failures, right? You have set a standard, you've defined a standard in our system, and then we are validating data that we find on your website against that standard. So the most important thing, like if everything was green on this, you just look at it and move on, right? So we're going to start on the things that are red. So, just quickly saying, maybe channel variables, one of our more important variables, or is page name an important variable? So this is like failing a lot, just for the sake of example, but we can say the page name is maybe supposed to equal a data layer variable. And if there was something that got out of sync with that not working, you could just very quickly, click to see what all those different values are of the different page name variables. So you can very quickly say, oh, here's the problem. And somehow it got out of sync with the data layer, or something like that. And so take some action for mediation that way. Great question.

Then some of the other ones that are out now, as well as page summary, this is just an overview of all the pages that we found in this scan. Some high-level metrics about how quickly they loaded, the various status codes that were found, and then just quickly, filtering on them. Show me my pages that loaded in the six to ten second range, here they are. Show me my pages that were redirects. Or a combination of both, that were redirects and were a little bit slow side. So I can very quickly get to that insight, nicely as well. The other thing that we can do now that we haven't been able to do before, we're really excited about is, being able to come to report, say like the tag inventory, and adding this Adobe Analytics filter to the report, and then now the report is just focused on my Adobe tag. And then I can go to other reports, say like our tag health report, which shows the load times and the status codes for Adobe Analytics, and now it's filtered I should say for Adobe Analytics. And I can just get a quick overview. How is my Adobe Analytics tag performing? Well, we can see here that none of the tags loaded slowly, they all loaded in less than 500 milliseconds. They all had success status codes, so that's great.

Chris Baird: (35:19)
I feel like we've been having customers ask us for that for a little bit. That's like a big win for us. That's cool, nice work.

Clint Eagar: (35:29)
And then most of these other reports are almost ready to come out as well, or just released. So duplicates and multiples, this is where there may be some data inflation happening. So we've got this Twitter Analytics conversion, and what this means here is that a lot of pages, there's a couple of those beacons, or network requests that are loading on every page. So that's something that probably ought to get looked into, if that's getting counted twice that could be a really bad thing. Or if that conversion is happening a couple of times that could really mess up the conversion rate calculations. And so that's something that should get looked at right away.

Cameron Cowan: (36:09)
It's funny Clint, as you click around it, because you're so familiar with the tool, I see you kind of zipping through three or four different things at a time. One of the things I'm noticing and I'm loving is how quickly things load. I remember when Next Stop was first launched and we had this new environment, I had a little yellow spinning thing and the animation, is that going away? Do I not get to see that anymore?

Clint Eagar: (36:29)
That is going away as soon as we can get it to go away. We are laser-focused on getting that to go away. There's a few reports right now that still have it, but that will be a thing of the past here over the next month or two. We've got some pretty massive updates, some really significant and meaningful updates to the Privacy Report. So, saying which tags are approved or which cookies are approved to be on the site for this cookie domain, or things like that. We are currently in the process of revamping that whole structure for consent category management or Category Management Validation within our system, so there's some pretty big updates to that. What we've done actually is we stepped back just a little bit, we've simplified the setup substantially and we've simplified the reporting as well, we were finding that out of the gates with our first iteration of that, that it was too complicated. Cause what really at the end of the day what's important, and I'm hesitant to show those cause you're gonna get that funky... I just can't stand it.

Cameron Cowan: (37:29)
There it is.

Clint Eagar: (37:32)
So like we go to the cookie inventory report, this one will load a lot more quickly. So we could say that, this cookie is approved for use on my site. Then any cookie that shows up that is not in that approved list is automatically unapproved. And so when you go to that report, it'll quickly call out, here are some new cookies or cookies that you haven't documented yet for validation. And you can quickly say, yeah, this one needs to get removed from the site. Let's go find out how that got there, and get it removed. Or yes, actually this is a new cookie that we introduced on purpose. And let me add it to the approved list. Very, very quickly right from the report. And so future validation will say, yep, that cookie is there and it's allowed.

Cameron Cowan: (38:12)
What I love about that is a lot of people have a good sense of what should be on my site, but a lot of times they don't realize there's these rogue and piggyback tags and cookies that are happening inside of other tags and cookies and containers. And so getting them that visibility and then being able to block them is fantastic. And I think that's a great preview into kind of the next DataChat we're going to be having Chris, isn't it, that hopefully by the time have that discussion, all of these new privacy reports will be updated as well. And we can dive a little bit deeper into them.

Chris Baird: (38:42)
Yup. That would be the goal. So did you want to talk, can we talk about the browser Console Logs Report?

Clint Eagar: (38:48)
I didn't, but it is a significant new report just across the board. In the entire scan, a collection of all the browser errors or warnings that we're seeing, where they are, more specific, and a significant enhancement that I think will be really, really compelling for customers, actually for anybody for the market in general, is, were there any related tags that were related to that error or warning or info or whatever? So we can see here that this JavaScript or this console warning message is related to our Facebook events bootstrap tag. So I can click into that, see more detail, if there is any more detail, sometimes the warning message, like this is just what the browser gives us. So we're just displaying what the browser gives us. So very, very, very quickly see, oh, where is that? Where's it occurring? Oh, it's actually occurring on most of the pages, in this scan. And so where are those? And let me go look at the rest of the errors that are happening. I know this is under staging, so some stuff's in flux a little bit. So this just would typically load a lot quicker. This is gonna be a really powerful report we think as well, especially with the addition of the related tag.

The other thing that we've added, just in terms of that related tag, that we've been asked for by customers for a long, long time is show me all the requests that happen on the page. And then as those requests happen, show me which ones are actually related to tags. And so we can find one, we can see here that these two requests are what we identified as Google universal and GTM. So, very quickly, we'll be adding some support in the future to where you can quickly request a new tag, from here as well.

Chris Baird: (40:34)
Very cool. And a lot of great work. Thanks so much. Clinton and Cameron. You guys are obviously the tip of the spear in leading this presentation, but we know there's a lot of other product team members and designers and engineers that are sitting behind the scenes working to deliver a lot of great value for all of our enterprise amazing customers that invest so much of their time and money into, data collection. Our goal is to help make sure they feel that confidence in their data and they can make good decisions from that data. So again, thank you so much. You guys are awesome and really making a difference. So we are almost coming up on 41 minutes longer than I thought for our first episode here, but, episode one was a success. I think it was very good. We had 700 registrants that wanted to tune in live. That's a great size audience for our first episode. And we want to be incorporating feedback. So if you have feedback for us about the event, about the agenda, about the topics, please shoot them over to us. Reply directly to our emails, reach out to someone at ObservePoint, we'd love to incorporate that. Any parting words Cam or Clint?

Cameron Cowan: (41:44)
No, I'm just, I love this format. I love chatting 41 minutes is long, I could go another couple of hours, just chatting it up and stuff. So looking forward to the next one.

Chris Baird: (41:52)
We're anticipating everyone's on at least 2X here. We're putting this on YouTube. We're putting it on Spotify, on Apple, Stitcher. So it'll be on all of your favorite podcasts platforms. And for visually, if you want to see all this, you're going to have to obviously go on our website or go to YouTube, but we'll have it available. Okay. Thanks everyone. Appreciate it, until next time.